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Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

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Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by lianne on 2011-07-06, 14:16

Let's get right down to it, shall we? Wink

If you've been holding your breath the entire time you were reading Chapter 1, In Memoriam allows you to let your breath out and just be sad and depressed. Ok fine, it's not THAT depressing but this chapter lets you reminisce about Dumbledore as Harry reads two contrasting articles about the late headmaster.

  • Upon reading Elphias Doge's tribute to Albus as well as Rita Skeeter's teasers, what were your initial reactions? Like Harry, did your heart swell with love and pride when you read Doge's praises? Did you cry out in anger when you read Skeeter's dubious account of Dumbledore's past?


Follow this thread as we tackle more.

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Aze on 2011-07-06, 14:25

When i read both accounts, my initial reaction was: "Just as i wondered."

Elphias' was yeah heartwarming and pretty much we know that yes that is Dumbledore. Loving and caring guy, smart, brilliant even. With Rita's however, i wasn't really shocked cause i mean despite Dumbledore's kindness, Dumbledore is still a human being, he has this little thing that meets the eye. So i was kinda expecting it a little bit about Dumbledore... There are always 2 sides of a person and Dumbledore is no exception.... Smile
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by DADAProfAE on 2011-07-06, 15:05

Coming from the very horrid opening chapter, I must say this one was a good way to just let me wallow in sadness. Who doesn't remember the murder of the beloved Headmaster from Book 6? It was still fresh in our minds and seeing his life (or even bits and pieces of it) reconstructed on paper was an awwww moment for me.

Yes my heart swelled with pride (I actually shed tears every time I read this part; just trying to recall it now is giving my throat unnecessary painful constrictions) while reading Doge's account, and yes, I wanted to wring Skeeter's neck for writing such things about the man we all admired.

Now leave me be as I wipe away my tears in silence. . .

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by lianne on 2011-07-07, 13:36

The Dursleys Departing chapter afforded the Dursleys an opportunity to redeem themselves. Surprisingly, it was Dudley who stepped up and turned out the better man! Well, compared to his parents at least. Smile

Were you surprised by Dudley's show of erm...affection for Harry?

How did you feel when Petunia simply left Privet Drive with nary a word to Harry?

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Aze on 2011-07-07, 18:24

I actually was surprised by Dudley... Never had i imagined... Never ever... hehe... But still hey they are cousins... They already matured a lot and they are not the kids they were before, so i understand what Dudley felt leaving Harry alone...

But as for Petunia not saying anything to Harry is kinda absurd, a hug would do, good luck or just anything to lift Harry's spirit... I really don't care if Vernon wouldnt say anything to Harry but Petunia, tsk tsk...
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by willow731 on 2011-07-07, 19:00

It was heartwarming, and in a way, I was proud of Dudley for showing that he has grown into a better version of himself. I was expecting a change in his relationship with Harry ever since Order of the Phoenix, when he and Harry shared that harrowing and traumatic experience with the dementors. They did survive it together. And Harry did save him that day. If the trio's friendship was forged by their battle with the troll in Philosopher's Stone, Dudley and Harry's relationship was forever changed by their encounter with the dementors.

I was satisfied with the way JK handled this chapter in Harry and Dudley's relationship. They have a lot of bad history, the least we could expect of a proud - yet humbled - Dudley was this polite yet heartwarming goodbye.

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by lianne on 2011-07-07, 21:06

Ooo! I love your answers.
I have an unplanned question here:

If you had to choose, would you have preferred Dudley's redemption or Petunia's empathy (both in relation to Harry)?

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Elerrina on 2011-07-08, 01:46

I would prefer Dudley's redemption. I think that Dudley's one of the characters in the book who sort of got the short end of the stick as far as development went--for 6 books, he was just this detestable kid who was a bully and a wimp and had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. But in this book, we finally saw that there was more to him than that. To see him have that moment of reconciliation with Harry before they parted ways forever was one of the nicest things in the book for me.

I think Petunia's had her time to shine in many other areas. It was time for Dudley's closure.
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by willow731 on 2011-07-08, 15:07

From the character development point of view, I would have loved for Petunia to have said anything to Harry - any little bit of empathy, a window of understanding, a kind word about the fact that she understands the danger Harry is facing. Because I think Petunia does understand it very well. She lost a sister to this very danger and, at that point, she may very well lose a nephew to the same.

Petunia is very bitter about the world of magic. But I think until the very end, she still finds it very inviting. She just hides it deep. I would have loved to see her get over her bitterness and show some empathy for her nephew.

But, as it was, from a narrative point of view, I think her hesitation at the last minute was appropriate. It teases Petunia's background without revealing anything. Makes it even more fun to see it unfold in a much later chapter.

So to answer your question, I prefer Dudley's redemption because it previews a better future. At that point in the story, everything seems to be dark and gloomy and scary. It was closure for the characters involved, but at the same time, it makes you smile thinking that if they do survive this war, when they see each other again, they're gonna be alright. They're going to be better people to each other.

Sorry, I feel like these characters are my children (all of them, not just Dudley and Harry). Laughing I just wanna give them all a hug! Laughing

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by lianne on 2011-07-09, 23:01

Great insights willow731! Very Happy
5pts to you (please inform your prefects).

You know, when I asked that question, I thought people would much rather see Petunia and Harry's interaction. Smile But that bit where you said, 'Dudley's redemption previews a better future' is actually quite true. Petunia's issues with Lily and Harry are already too deep seated that whatever may have happened during that goodbye will probably not change anything if and when they see each other again. Whereas Dudley's redemption showed a promise of a better future.

---------------------------------------------------

So. Now you're calm. At peace. Feeling very safe. Then BAM BAM BAM!!! O_O
JK decided to rip everything apart and destroy the world as you know it.

Chapter 4 - The Seven Potters started well enough. It was quite fun actually. Until somebody got hurt:

  • This is probably a very big question and I don't know if anyone can answer it as truthfully as they can but, if you were friends with Harry and were placed in the same situation, would you have taken the polyjuice potion and risked your life and your family's?


  • Honestly now, did you hate JK when she killed Hedwig just like that?


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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by loonyphy on 2011-07-09, 23:26

This is probably a very big question and I don't know if anyone can answer it as truthfully as they can but, if you were friends with Harry and were placed in the same situation, would you have taken the polyjuice potion and risked your life and your family's?

--- If I were Harry's friend and have been brought up with the same way and in the same environment as the "Seven Potters", I think I would have also risked my life and my family for him. For example, if I were brought up by the Weasleys, clearly as the family stood up for what's right and good, they have been the perfect Gryffindor models around, I would have followed their foot steps. I would gladly risk my life for Harry and do my own part.

However and unfortunately, I am in no position. Truth be told, growing up and having been heavily influenced by our Filipino values-one of which is the "FAMILY FIRST OVER ANYONE ELSE OR ANYTHING ELSE" mentality, I don't think I could risk my family over a friend, no matter how close I am to him.

Honestly now, did you hate JK when she killed Hedwig just like that?

-Honestly, (it's not that I don't value pets or anything), but during that part, I was more thankful that aside from Moody, it is just Hedwig that she killed, not anybody else. Razz
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Aze on 2011-07-10, 11:17

This is probably a very big question and I don't know if anyone can answer it as truthfully as they can but, if you were friends with Harry and were placed in the same situation, would you have taken the polyjuice potion and risked your life and your family's?

- Oh my very very big question. To be really honest, i would say No. I will however fight in the war with them, the battle of hogwarts, but being one of the 7 potters that takes a lot of chivalry in their part... but then again i can't blame them you know, they have lost so much that they would do anything to win...

Maybe if i have the same situation with them, and that i am with harry every single step of his way through this then i could consider it and will be very much willing to say yes... But since i haven't really experienced such thing that would somehow bring my answer back to No for the meantime...

Honestly now, did you hate JK when she killed Hedwig just like that?

-- Not really. I know that Hedwig was one of my favorite pets in the book but i could have sworn i would hate JK if it was one of my favorite characters killed early on... (thinking hermione being killed - but i know that won't happen - who would help them in the horcrux thing. hehe)
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by tanglewood14 on 2011-07-10, 13:27

Upon reading Elphias Doge's tribute to Albus as well as Rita Skeeter's teasers, what were your initial reactions? Like Harry, did your heart swell with love and pride when you read Doge's praises? Did you cry out in anger when you read Skeeter's dubious account of Dumbledore's past?

When I read Skeeter's account of Dumbledore's past, I was appalled and believe it or not, I felt a little betrayed. Then again, we can't believe everything we read, right? And especially from someone like Skeeter, surely, not everything she wrote is right.

The Dursleys Departing chapter afforded the Dursleys an opportunity to redeem themselves. Surprisingly, it was Dudley who stepped up and turned out the better man! Well, compared to his parents at least.

Were you surprised by Dudley's show of erm...affection for Harry?


I was actually proud of Dudley. There's heart under that thick facade of toughness. Who would've thought it would take a near-death experience with the Dementors in order for Dudley to show kindness towards Harry?

How did you feel when Petunia simply left Privet Drive with nary a word to Harry?

I was a little disappointed in her, to be honest. There they were, about to part from one another for what seems to be the rest of their lives, and Petunia wouldn't even say anything to Harry? The boy has his mother's eyes - Petunia's very own sister - doesn't she Lily in the boy? I don't know... I just wish there had been more closure between the two.


This is probably a very big question and I don't know if anyone can answer it as truthfully as they can but, if you were friends with Harry and were placed in the same situation, would you have taken the polyjuice potion and risked your life and your family's?

That is a tough one. And I wondered the same thing for myself when I listening to the audiobook last week. I probably wouldn't go as far as taking the polyjuice potion, but I would definitely fight with the Order of The Phoenix/Dumbledore's Army. I wouldn't sit back in fear and let Voldemort take over the world. I would fight against him.


Honestly now, did you hate JK when she killed Hedwig just like that?

"Hate" is such a strong word, but yeah, I was a shocked and saddened that Hedwig suddenly died. I know what it's like to have a pet die without warning, so when Hedwig died, a very small part of me died with her. It was like losing a pet all over again.
Sad
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by willow731 on 2011-07-10, 22:13

lianne wrote:Great insights willow731! Very Happy
5pts to you (please inform your prefects).

Wow! Thanks! My first points! Yay! Very Happy

lianne wrote:
  • This is probably a very big question and I don't know if anyone can answer it as truthfully as they can but, if you were friends with Harry and were placed in the same situation, would you have taken the polyjuice potion and risked your life and your family's?

Oh my. I still don't know how to answer this. 'Coz I'm usually a safety zone character in real life. Hehe.

But I agree with Aze. If I were friends with Harry, and I have been with him from his very first adventures (like Ron or Hermione), I would probably be willing to take the polyjuice potion. Because at that point, I have already gathered enough dangerous experiences myself. Not taking anything away from the extremely dangerous situation of impersonating Harry, of course. But still, IF I were that close to Harry, I would have risked my life, too.

This just struck me while analyzing my answer for this question: what amazes me in this chapter is the involvement of Fleur. Because out of the five volunteers (I'm not counting Mundungus anymore since he was forced into it), she has the least bit of attachment to Harry. Ron and Hermione are giveaways, they'd never let Harry go through it alone. Fred and George wouldn't pass up an adventure and their family is heavily involved in this. But Fleur... she just knew Harry for one year during the Triwizard Cup. Sure, Harry saved his sister during the second task, but one can argue that that was just a fluke, her sister was not in any real danger anyway. And sure, Bill is a Weasley and part of the Order, but one can argue that Fleur doesn't really have to be there, too -- Mrs. Weasley wasn't. So I find it really amazing that Fleur would be there, it's so brave and noble of her to volunteer for that... because if my friendship with Harry is the same level as Fleur's... I probably wouldn't be there.

I'm not extremely brave like them. So... I probably won't be one of the seven Harrys. Or one of the seven guards, either.

For shame. Embarassed

lianne wrote:
  • Honestly now, did you hate JK when she killed Hedwig just like that?

I didn't hate her for it. If it was Fred or George or Ron or Hermione, I would have been really angry. Because the death was so sudden and then you wouldn't have a proper time to grieve because there's still a lot going on, they're still trying to survive the ambush. The deaths of any of those four should be done right. I'm not saying it's "just" Hedwig... but since this is a war and if someone really has to die to give that feeling of a war and danger and that no one is safe, I'm okay with it being Hedwig. I'm even okay with the way Mad Eye died.

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by loonyphy on 2011-07-10, 22:45

willow731 wrote:

This just struck me while analyzing my answer for this question: what amazes me in this chapter is the involvement of Fleur. Because out of the five volunteers (I'm not counting Mundungus anymore since he was forced into it), she has the least bit of attachment to Harry. Ron and Hermione are giveaways, they'd never let Harry go through it alone. Fred and George wouldn't pass up an adventure and their family is heavily involved in this. But Fleur... she just knew Harry for one year during the Triwizard Cup. Sure, Harry saved his sister during the second task, but one can argue that that was just a fluke, her sister was not in any real danger anyway. And sure, Bill is a Weasley and part of the Order, but one can argue that Fleur doesn't really have to be there, too -- Mrs. Weasley wasn't. So I find it really amazing that Fleur would be there, it's so brave and noble of her to volunteer for that... because if my friendship with Harry is the same level as Fleur's... I probably wouldn't be there.

I'm not extremely brave like them. So... I probably won't be one of the seven Harrys. Or one of the seven guards, either.

For shame. Embarassed


I agree with you on this! Smile At first, I didn't mind Fleur the way I look forward to others but when she joined in the Seven Potters, somehow she gained a lot of respect from me. Smile Even if she isn't that close to Harry, no too much emotional investment, she willingly risked her life. Smile
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by lianne on 2011-07-10, 23:47

willow731 wrote:This just struck me while analyzing my answer for this question: what amazes me in this chapter is the involvement of Fleur. Because out of the five volunteers (I'm not counting Mundungus anymore since he was forced into it), she has the least bit of attachment to Harry. Ron and Hermione are giveaways, they'd never let Harry go through it alone. Fred and George wouldn't pass up an adventure and their family is heavily involved in this. But Fleur... she just knew Harry for one year during the Triwizard Cup. Sure, Harry saved his sister during the second task, but one can argue that that was just a fluke, her sister was not in any real danger anyway. And sure, Bill is a Weasley and part of the Order, but one can argue that Fleur doesn't really have to be there, too -- Mrs. Weasley wasn't. So I find it really amazing that Fleur would be there, it's so brave and noble of her to volunteer for that... because if my friendship with Harry is the same level as Fleur's... I probably wouldn't be there.

Hahaha! Good point. But perhaps one can argue that Fleur really didn't want to leave Bill's side. Remember, she already almost lost him to Greyback in HBP so she probably wasn't taking any chances. I'm not saying Mrs. Weasley is not as attached to Mr. Weasley or to any of her children but I can actually imagine how Arthur could have easily convinced her to stay behind. She would have been a bigger help at the Burrow, being the point person. And Molly has gone through the first war. She would have been in a better position to understand the dangers involved in situations like that as well as the roles and responsibilities of each member of the team.

Fleur on the other hand would have been insistent. She would have joined the team whether Bill liked it or not. If not for Harry's sake, at least to make sure Bill is safe. I think I'm more surprised that Bill agreed that Fleur should polyjuice into Harry. Either he was very confident he can protect her or again, Fleur insisted.

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by willow731 on 2011-07-11, 01:22

lianne wrote:Hahaha! Good point. But perhaps one can argue that Fleur really didn't want to leave Bill's side. Remember, she already almost lost him to Greyback in HBP so she probably wasn't taking any chances. I'm not saying Mrs. Weasley is not as attached to Mr. Weasley or to any of her children but I can actually imagine how Arthur could have easily convinced her to stay behind. She would have been a bigger help at the Burrow, being the point person. And Molly has gone through the first war. She would have been in a better position to understand the dangers involved in situations like that as well as the roles and responsibilities of each member of the team.

Fleur on the other hand would have been insistent. She would have joined the team whether Bill liked it or not. If not for Harry's sake, at least to make sure Bill is safe. I think I'm more surprised that Bill agreed that Fleur should polyjuice into Harry. Either he was very confident he can protect her or again, Fleur insisted.


Right! Haha. I forgot to consider Fleur's strong reaction when she almost lost Bill. And yes, she's a go-getter, she would be very insistent once she set her mind on joining the team, if not for Harry's then for Bill's sake.

Since you mentioned your surprise that Bill agreed to Fleur taking the polyjuice... what about Arthur Weasley? Agreeing to let three of his sons take it, and another one to join the guard. Must have been a real pain for Mr. Weasley to agree to that situation. Must be heartbreaking for Mrs. Weasley, too.

But I guess that shows how brave and noble these people really are... and how difficult it is to answer your question! Laughing

If I may, I know it's not in the book, but one of my favorite quotes from the Deathly Hallows Part 1 movie is this exchange between Ron and Harry after the ambush:

Harry: No one else is going to die. Not for me.
Ron: For you? You think Mad-Eye died for you? You think George took that curse for you? You may be the Chosen One, mate, but this is a whole lot bigger than that. It's always been bigger than that.

So I guess I may have been looking at this from a micro point of view (like Harry). It's not about their attachment to Harry. It's not about any one person, really. It's about the bigger picture, the fight against evil.

Harry is the Chosen One and the symbol of hope for the magical community. But they are not risking their lives just to protect Harry... they are risking their lives to ensure that good will prevail, that the good fight will go on. They are risking their lives for the future of the whole magical community. Every step, every risk is for that greater cause.

So the real question is, are you willing to die fighting against evil? And would it really matter where you die: at the battle of Hogwarts or while helping protect the Chosen One?

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Aze on 2011-07-11, 16:51

Nice thought you put into this willow... I could have given you points for this, but im sorry im not allowed. Hehe... Smile

But right you are, i was actually thinking the same thing. Probably in the stand point of Ron and Hermione knowing what they are involving theirselves in, for the destruction of the Horcrux, probably the two of them in their minds is the protection of Harry. That would be their first thought. Eventhough they don't know that Harry is the final horcrux, it made sense to them that it should be Harry who will lead them into this.

But as for the others who are actually blind about the horcrux thing, of course they are thinking of saving Harry because that's what Dumbledore told them to. But if it is me who is actually in the role of the other order members who is just told to protect Harry without even knowing what Harry might do or what he is doing, i will also doubt if he really has something in mind. So if it were me, of course first thing that would come to mind is to save humanity, save the people that needs to be saved because we never know what the outcome would be. Only Harry, Ron and Hermione knows.

So from my point of view, its just the way people thinks which would benefit them more and thats what they will choose... Smile

But from your question about willing to die against evil, probably yes. This is war, you can't deny the fact that you will face sufferings, deaths and others. And about would it matter where you die at hogwarts or protecting the chosen one, no it wouldnt matter to because what would matter you put your life into it whether saving Harry or protecting the wizarding world its the same. Smile
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by gen_excelciosempra on 2011-07-18, 01:42

yeah! kinda heartfelt for elphias.... dumbledore was the best man i ever knew.... but in rita's it sets my teeth on edge! if i could only report her to the ministry that she was an unregistered animagus!
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by AmandaBlue on 2011-08-05, 02:18

tanglewood14 wrote:Honestly now, did you hate JK when she killed Hedwig just like that?

"Hate" is such a strong word, but yeah, I was a shocked and saddened that Hedwig suddenly died. I know what it's like to have a pet die without warning, so when Hedwig died, a very small part of me died with her. It was like losing a pet all over again.
Sad

This is true. It hurts to lose a pet and to lose one just like that, it probably hurts more than the usual. But no, I don't hate JKR. I was sad, but I don't hate her. I've heard this analysis before and I quite agree with it: Hedwig's death symbolized the end of Harry's childhood. I think JKR killed off Hedwig to show the readers that this is serious stuff. This is war and no one is spared.
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by lianne on 2011-08-09, 22:50

Some random things about chapter 4 before I move to chapter 5...

Priori Incantatem. It's happened before and it happened again. But this time, the magic was bigger than Harry, and I suppose we as readers, could comprehend at the time. His wand moved on its own and connected with Voldemort's. This is explained later in the book as wand lore is of course explored further. We'll get back to this.

Moving forward, chapter 5...it's like In Memoriam, a break from all the action, but the tension is thicker as everyone waited and wondered. I'm sure you found yourself holding your breath as the Order members got accounted for and you realized who was missing:

  • George got hit by Snape's curse. Honestly, who here felt their trust in Snape waver because of that?

  • Lupin got mad at Harry for using expelliarmus on Stan Shunpike instead of AK or stupefy. Do you think Harry was being naive? True, they were at war but does that mean you should set aside morals? Did you side with Lupin or Harry?

  • How did you feel about Moody's death? How his body was lost?


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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by dementedlouise on 2011-08-25, 01:27

lianne wrote:

George got hit by Snape's curse. Honestly, who here felt their trust in Snape waver because of that?


-I have no idea it was Snape. But it was curious for me that a Killing Curse wasn't use on George. I expect that DEs would use it since Voldy ordered that those who defend Harry should be killed. By this time, they have an idea now that it was not the real Harry.

Lupin got mad at Harry for using expelliarmus on Stan Shunpike instead of AK or stupefy. Do you think Harry was being naive? True, they were at war but does that mean you should set aside morals? Did you side with Lupin or Harry?


-I sided with Lupin. A person's kindness or more like naivety should have its limitation. And I believe that this scenario was applicable or example to that limitation. You are in a matter of life and death situation, thinking of yourself first isn't all that bad. In fact, it's a MUST for this situation since Harry knew the prophecy--that he's the only one who could defeat the Dark Lord. If Harry were to die in the hands of the DEs or be captured by them, whose to stop the Dark Lord? No one. In this case, Lupin has a point. After all, they have all risked their lives for Harry and it's not a good way to repay them (OotP) to be kind/naive to your enemy when in fact, he's dying to capture you (whether Imperiused or not)


dementedlouise
Dodging Peeves' Water Balloons at the Entrance Hall

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Shane Mari on 2012-02-29, 19:26

Wait, how did you guys figure out that it was Snape's curse that hit George? I never realized that! Neutral
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Shane Mari
Just got off the Hogwarts Express

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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by tiffy on 2012-03-02, 15:40

Shane Mari,

Chapter 5 Fallen Warrior

"Snape's work," said Lupin.

"He lost his hood during the chase. Sectumsempra was always a speciality of Snape's. ... "

I can't give you the exact page and paragraph since I'm using an ebook right now. Smile

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tiffy
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

Post by Shane Mari on 2012-03-02, 16:14

Oooh, yeah I remember it now. Thank you!
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Shane Mari
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Re: Chapters 2-5 - How can you do this JK?!

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