SS: Harry's Education [Chapters 7 to 12]

On to the next installment of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone!

• Chapter 7: The Sorting Hat
Harry and the rest of the first years arrive at Hogwarts and are sorted into their houses. Harry, desperately pleading that he not be placed in Slytherin, is sorted into Gryffindor with Ron, Hermione and Neville among others. Draco joins Slytherin, along with his cronies Crabbe and Goyle. After some reminders from Professor Dumbledore, they are introduced to their professors at the Great Hall's head table for the first time. They also meet Nearly Headless Nick, Peeves the poltergeist. The Gryffindors enter their common room.

• Chapter 8:
Harry attends his classes at Hogwarts. Among all the teachers he has encountered, Professor Severus Snape seems to despise Harry the most, reprimanding him for not knowing the answers to the questions he asked in Potions class. Harry receives a letter from Hagrid. After classes they go to his cabin near the Forbidden Forest.

• Chapter 9: The Midnight Duel
Gryffindor and Slytherin first years attend Madam Hooch's flying class. Neville falls of his broomstick and breaks his wrist, dropping the remembrall he received from his grandmother in the process. While Madam Hooch accompanies Neville to see Madam Pomfrey, Draco takes the remembrall for his own and flies away with it. Harry chases after him on a broomstick, which he manages to fly with ease for the first time. Draco throws the remembrall in the air, and Harry catches it before it falls to the ground. Professor McGonagall sees this happen and takes Harry to see Oliver Wood. Instead of receiving punishment, Harry becomes Seeker of the Gryffindor Quidditch Team. Draco challenges Harry to a midnight duel in the trophy room. Harry, Ron, Hermione and Neville show up, but Draco doesn't. Trying to keep themselves from getting caught by Argus Filch and Mrs. Norris, they escape to a locked room which Hermione manages to open, only to find a three-headed dog. They manage to escape again and return to the Gryffindor common room.

• Chapter 10: Halloween
Over breakfast, Harry, Ron and Hermione are discussing what the three-headed dog is guarding. Harry receives a Nimbus 2000 via owl post, much to Draco's annoyance. Oliver Wood teaches Harry the basics of Quidditch. In Charms class, Professor Flitwick teaches the spell Wingardium leviosa. Hermione overhears Ron complaining about her, and spends the rest of the time in the girls' bathroom crying. During the Halloween feast, Quirell announces that there is a troll in Hogwarts. The prefects direct the students to their respective common rooms. Ron and Harry run to the girls' bathroom where Hermione is trapped with the troll. The two manage to knock it down with the newly learned charm, and Hermione covers for the boys when confronted by Professor McGonagall. Thus begins Hermione's friendship with Harry and Ron.

• Chapter 11: Quidditch
Certain instances leads Harry to believe Snape plays a big part in the troll incident. During Gryffindor's Quidditch match versus Slytherin, Harry loses control of his broomstick which was dangerously trying to dislodge him while in mid-air. Hermione notices Snape staring at Harry and muttering to himself and proceeds to set fire to Snape's cloak, which caused a bit of commotion among the professors nearby. The spell on Harry's broom is broken and Harry catches the snitch [or rather, almost swallows it]. In Hagrid's hut, Hermione and Ron speculate that Snape was the one cursing the broomstick. Hagrid does not believe them. Harry tells him Snape was trying to get past the three-headed dog. Hagrid unintentionally tells them that Fluffy the dog was guarding a secret known to Dumbledore and Nicholas Flamel.

• Chapter 12: The Mirror of Erised
The trio tries to research on Nicholas Flamel, and doesn't find anything in the library books. Harry and Ron stay at Hogwarts for the holidays. Harry receives christmas presents, including an invisible cloak that used to belong to his father. He uses the cloak to get into the restricted section of the library and almost gets caught by Snape and Filch. He hides in an empty classroom and finds a large mirror. The reflection shows him with his parents. Harry shows Ron the mirror the following night. When he returns for the third time, Harry finds Dumbledore waiting for him. The headmaster tells him the mirror will be moved to new location.


Guide questions [please be reminded that we are discussing SS until the 12th chapter only]:

• In Harry's "conversation" with the Sorting Hat, why do you think Harry desperately asked it not put him in Slytherin?
• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?
• Given what little we know so far of Severus Snape, why do you think Snape treated Harry with much condescension?
• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?
• "It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live." What did Albus Dumbledore mean by saying this?

Some questions to reflect on as well:
• By now we know that Harry already has a penchant for trouble and disregarding rules [and without these misaadventures we would have no books! haha]. Would you have done things differently if you were in his shoes? [Would you have gone sneaking out of the common room after hours, or chased after Draco, or battled the troll on your own, for example? And why? You can also cite more instances.]
• If you were to look at the Mirror of Erised, what would you see?

Feel free to discuss other relevant thoughts that I haven't brought up yet. Pwede rin pala mag-Tagalog, para sa mga natatakot magka-nose bleed.

I'll be reading your posts and awarding points to those with well-written and organised answers - English man or Tagalog.

Read and discuss away!

• In Harry's "conversation" with the Sorting Hat, why do you think Harry desperately asked it not put him in Slytherin?

Right, so I should probably quote a few things from the book to support what I'll say.

Note: I am using the Scholastic edition.

Harry was strongly reminded of Dudley. (p. 77, Chapter: Diagon Alley -- this is when he first met Draco Malfoy, who, on the same page, had claimed that his family had always been in Slytherin.)

"...I don't suppose Ravenclaw would be too bad, but imagine if they put me in Slytherin."
"That's the House Vol-, I mean, You-Know-Who was in?" (p. 106-107, Chapter: The Journey From Platform Nine and Three-Quarters)

Perhaps it was Harry's imagination, after all he'd heard about Slytherin, but he thought they looked like an unpleasant lot.
He was starting to feel definitely sick now. He remembered being picked for teams during gym at his old school. He had always been last to be chosen, not because he was no good, but because no one wanted Dudley to think they liked him.
(p. 119-120, Chapter: The Sorting Hat)

From this, I think he was sort of anxious about two things: one is about being in the same House as his parents' murderer, and the other is about being in a House in which he's likely to get bullied again. Sharing a House with Voldemort most likely made him felt queasy because of the idea of how Voldemort turned out to be, and I doubt that he would not feel frustrated with himself if he shared a House with the man who killed parents. As for getting bullied, it was an experience he thought he already had left in the Muggle world. Right from the start it was apparent to him how he would never fit in Slytherin, and his previous experience in the Muggle world added to his paranoia. Harry was sick of being the underdog, and I think it would have broken his heart if he had still been the underdog in the world in which he truly belongs.

• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?

Truth be told, I think he deserved both a reward and a punishment. After all, he broke the rules to help a friend. By exemplifying the traits of a true Gryffindor, he must've made their Head of House really proud. On the other hand, while the ends may have been "justified" by his means, it was still wrong and could in fact inspire other students to break the rules too. Some people have the fallacious cause-and-effect mentality and it might make them think that Harry got a reward because he broke the rules.

• Given what little we know so far of Severus Snape, why do you think Snape treated Harry with much condescension?

Prior to reading Prisoner of Azkaban, I have always seen Snape as "the necessary terror professor in every school". I figured he was doing so because he knew how some people can turn into arrogant people when they do not undergo humbling experiences.

• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?

I'll admit it, Hermione and I have lots of similar experiences, but she's obviously way smarter than me. Based on my own experience, I think Ron's initial nastiness to Hermione led her to reflect on her personality and why Ron disliked her so much. I believe that while Hermione cried in the bathroom all day, she had those moments in which she'd ask herself questions like "Why am I so hated?" and "Where did I go wrong?" I think it's natural for people to do that when they get hurt.

• "It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live." What did Albus Dumbledore mean by saying this?

When Dumbledore said this, he was pertaining to Harry's obsession with the Mirror of Erised. Harry was so obsessed with his fantasy world in the mirror that it was all he thought of, and by doing so he had started to neglect the real world. So when Dumbledore said this, he was trying to wake Harry up. This can be comparable to telling a friend that just because *insert name here* looked his/her way does not mean that *insert name here* is already in love with him/her.

Some questions to reflect on as well:
• By now we know that Harry already has a penchant for trouble and disregarding rules [and without these misaadventures we would have no books! haha]. Would you have done things differently if you were in his shoes? [Would you have gone sneaking out of the common room after hours, or chased after Draco, or battled the troll on your own, for example? And why? You can also cite more instances.]

Personally (and honestly) I'm much too lazy to do all those things that he did. Well surely I'd stand up for my friends, but sneaking out of the common room after hours would feel really wrong to me, unless it's for a useful purpose (like researching on Nicolas Flamel).

I think, though, that I would have done something quite mean to Draco Malfoy if I were in Harry's shoes and if I had his invisibility cloak. After all, the pull-down-his-pants prank never gets old.

• If you were to look at the Mirror of Erised, what would you see?

I won't answer this one right now because I haven't got any idea of what I would see. Perhaps I'll edit this after I find out.

I'm going to answer these with the Chapters 7-12 and the human psyche in mind:

• In Harry's "conversation" with the Sorting Hat, why do you think Harry desperately asked it not put him in Slytherin?
Let's put it this way, an 11 yr old boy who lived all his life being maltreated, shunned and blamed for doing "bad things", e.g. accidental magical stuff, gets to know he's a wizard and sees a new hope for himself... so hearing from people that Slytherin is a "bad lot" to begin with and especially Voldemort, the worst wizard of all time and not just his parents' kilers, coming from that house, Harry wouldn't want to go back to being outcast and seen as a horrible person. The general student population would have thought badly of Harry because of the nasty reputation Slytherin has gained. Harry would want to turn a new leaf and better not be in Slytherin.

• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?
McGonagall would have punished Harry if she hadn't been... well desperate maybe... to find a new seeker for the Gryffindor team. As stern as she could be, McGonagall still had the bright and better idea of putting Harry in the Quidditch Team. I think it isn't actually an act of rewarding, but a spur-of-the-moment decision that would benefit her House and instilling a sense of responsibility for Harry at the same time (well, Harry has been bending the rules) . It's actually turning something negative to something positive.

• Given what little we know so far of Severus Snape, why do you think Snape treated Harry with much condescension?
Tricky tricky... with so much known about Snape's history after the series, it will be hard to answer by just the information given by the 12 chapters. Well, if I don't know his past, I would say that he wants to belittle the Boy who Lived maybe just because Harry became Gryffindor. Maybe Snape wanted to discredit Harry because of the new found vigor Gryffindor got after Harry was sorted. Harry, the Boy who lived who became maybe the youngest Quidditch house player in a hundred years, the only 1st year allowed a broom, lucky to win over a troll, and has many students awestruck at him, is a Gryffindor. Imagine, Slytherin is House Cup champions 6 years in a row, and flattened the Gryffindors in their last Quidditch match, so Slytherin Head of House Snape has something to worry about for his house in the form of Harry Potter.

• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?
Hmmm, this is getting to be difficult... maybe after Ron pointed out how difficult she is to be with, Hermione could have cried herself to her senses in the bathroom. She is one of the cleverest witches in her year as a matter of fact so she could have thought of how right Ron was. But I do think it's strange for her to have been sensitive to Ron's remark when I think she is clever enough to have sensed other people's not nice thoughts and remarks aside from Ron's. All I could say is that it hurts more when hurtful things come from a special someone (there is a relationship brewing in the air hehehe...)

• "It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live." What did Albus Dumbledore mean by saying this?
Putting into context that Dumbledore said this to Harry after having seen the Mirror of Erised many times, Dumbledore wants Harry to look ahead and move on. Harry may have desired a family, but he does have a whole future ahead of him. Dumbledore is prodding Harry to stop wallowing in the desires that will not materialize (Harry's parents are dead you know), but live and build the newly found wizarding life Harry is now enjoying. Practically, there is more to life than looking at a mirror.

• By now we know that Harry already has a penchant for trouble and disregarding rules [and without these misadventures we would have no books! haha]. Would you have done things differently if you were in his shoes?
Well, if I were to have the same daredevil personality as Harry, I would have done all of his antics the same way. But we're not the same. I would have have not done some of his deeds, because I'm a follower of rules, unless by some urgency or exception, or if my pride and respect is involved. I am more of Hermione without the brattiness and know-it-all.

• If you were to look at the Mirror of Erised, what would you see?
I think what I would see would change from time to time, like maybe a helicopter when I'm late or Vicky Belo to lose weight during Christmas, but in my downtime I would see myself older and successful as a doctor with my family by my side. [/b]

allanwhistletop wrote:• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?
McGonagall would have punished Harry if she hadn't been... well desperate maybe... to find a new seeker for the Gryffindor team. As stern as she could be, McGonagall still had the bright and better idea of putting Harry in the Quidditch Team. I think it isn't actually an act of rewarding, but a spur-of-the-moment decision that would benefit her House and instilling a sense of responsibility for Harry at the same time (well, Harry has been bending the rules) . It's actually turning something negative to something positive.

• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?
Hmmm, this is getting to be difficult... maybe after Ron pointed out how difficult she is to be with, Hermione could have cried herself to her senses in the bathroom. She is one of the cleverest witches in her year as a matter of fact so she could have thought of how right Ron was. But I do think it's strange for her to have been sensitive to Ron's remark when I think she is clever enough to have sensed other people's not nice thoughts and remarks aside from Ron's. All I could say is that it hurts more when hurtful things come from a special someone (there is a relationship brewing in the air hehehe...)

Well said! I agree with most of your answers, but these two are probably the best, in my opinion. That part about Professor McGonagall giving Harry Potter a reward that would make him responsible is spot-on, and after reading that this question formed in my mind: What if Professor McGonagall had given him punishment instead? What if he had not been made Quidditch Seeker? I just realised how his reward had been very crucial to the development of his personality.

As for Ron being a special someone to Hermione, they were still too young back then for me to think of a relationship brewing in the air. I think though that, maybe, amongst all the other Gryffindor students, Ron and Harry were the ones she thought were "closest" to her, and that upon hearing not-so-nice things from them she had a sort of wake-up call regarding her actions. After all, it had been mentioned in the book that other Gryffindors said mean things about some of Hermione's actions, but Hermione never got that distressed because of them.

For being the first to post, I'm giving Nargles and Snorkacks 10pts and an additional 15 pts for very insightful answers. I especially liked your answer to the first question.

I am also awarding allanwhistletop of Gryffindor House 15 pts. I think you're on the money with your Remembrall answer.

Good job, guys!

• In Harry's "conversation" with the Sorting Hat, why do you think Harry desperately asked it not put him in Slytherin?

• Because of Voldemort: sino ba naman ang gustong tumira sa bahay na tinirhan ng taong pumatay sa mga magulang mo? And learning more about Slytherin during his walk with Hagrid

  (Chapter 5: Diagon Alley) Ebook Version: "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You-Know-Who was one."

  I bet he didn't like the idea of the possibility that if he will be a Slytherin, he would be one of those bad wizards.
  
• Because of Draco Malfoy: After his talk with Draco at Diagon Alley, he knew that Draco eagerly wants to be at Slytherin. And when he learned that Draco is a bully while they are on their way to Hogwarts, maybe he realized that he no longer needs another Dudley in his life.

• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?

allanwhistletop wrote:McGonagall would have punished Harry if she hadn't been... well desperate maybe... to find a new seeker for the Gryffindor team. As stern as she could be, McGonagall still had the bright and better idea of putting Harry in the Quidditch Team. I think it isn't actually an act of rewarding, but a spur-of-the-moment decision that would benefit her House and instilling a sense of responsibility for Harry at the same time (well, Harry has been bending the rules) . It's actually turning something negative to something positive.

I agree. And to add, I believe that Prof. McGonagall, unlike Snape, is very strict in giving rewards and punishments. And with the Remembrall incident, aside from what Allan mentioned, I think she considered the fact na wala namang nasaktan o masamang nangyari. Besides, hindi naman n'ya tuluyang kinalimutan yung nangyari, to quote what Prof. McGonagall told Harry

Chapter 9: Midnight Duel: "I want to hear you're training hard, Potter, or I may change my mind about punishing you."

• Given what little we know so far of Severus Snape, why do you think Snape treated Harry with much condescension?
Based on how Ron describe Snape,

Chapter 8: Potions Master "Snape's Head of Slytherin House. They say he always favors them-- we'll be able to see if it's true."

maybe Snape eagerly wants to have Harry, for being a pure-blood and someone from Wizarding History, into his house but unfortunately, the Sorting Hat placed him in the Gryffindor.

• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?
The Troll incident would not happen in the first place if she didn't run away. After hearing what others think about her,

Chapter 10: Halloween
Ron was in a very bad mood by the end of the class. "It's no wonder no one can stand her,"..."she's a nightmare, honestly."

I think she realized that her attitude is not that acceptable for others to be friends with her. Pero hindi naman siguro s'ya magbabago na ganun kabilis kung hindi rin nangyari yung sa Troll na umabot pa sa part na nagawa n'yang magsinungaling.

• In Harry's "conversation" with the Sorting Hat, why do you think Harry desperately asked it not put him in Slytherin?

I believe that it is largely because of the incredibly negative reactions to Slytherin House. Hagrid tells him there's "not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." (Sorcerer's Stone, p. 80, Scholastic).Ron is is gloomy at the idea of being put in Slytherin (SS, p. 106, Scholastic), and then there's Draco, a boy he dislikes, who is in Slytherin. Comparing these opinions about the other Houses--Ravenclaw "isn't too bad", according to Ron and Hermione in page 106 (SS , Scholastic), and the worst that's said about Hufflepuff is that it's a "lot o' duffers' (SS, p.80, Scholastic)--Harry would, I think, naturally wish that he would not be Sorted into the "worst" House.

• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?

I do think Harry should have been punished for this, because we see how this leniency fuelled his willingness to break the rules again for a "good cause"--case in point, his accepting the challenge for the midnight duel. Had McGonagall cracked down on him from the start, he would have been much more hesitant to try anything for a while.

Unfortunately, I see this as a typical school's reaction to athletics. Athletes do often get to bend rules in high school and college because of the teams they are part of, and Harry got to bend the rules (both by not getting punished for the Remembrall incident and by being able to get a broom even though he was a first year) because he was going to be on the Quidditch team. I imagine that there must have been some resentment on the part of some of the other students, not just Draco.

• Given what little we know so far of Severus Snape, why do you think Snape treated Harry with much condescension?

When I was viewing Sorcerer's Stone the movie for the first time (because I saw the film before reading the book), I saw Snape as one of those people who didn't cater to someone/something just because he/she/it was famous or popular, and even looked down on them to some extent. My theory regarding Snape's treatment of Harry was that he wanted to make it absolutely clear to everyone that he wasn't going to be treating Harry with any kind of specialty just because of who he was. In fact, he was going to be expecting Harry to step up even more given how he was famous without even having done anything to deserve it. Harry was going to have to earn Snape's favor the hard way if he wanted to be thought of as anything more than a dunderhead.

• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?

I think it was largely because of Ron's (unintentionally) blunt honesty regarding the kind of person she was in page 172 of Sorcerer's Stone (Scholastic). Before this incident, I had not seen anyone else outright insult Hermione, and if this was indeed the first time Hermione had directly been told how unlikeable she was, I think that the (painful) truth was able to disconcert her and make her think about the kind of person she was being around everyone else.

• "It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live." What did Albus Dumbledore mean by saying this?

I think Dumbledore is referring to how we can often get so wrapped up in our desires that we forget to act on the important things. As Harry believes, Dumbledore knew what the kids were up to. He knew that Harry should be working on finding out who Nicholas Flamel was, and what was going on under the trap door. Harry was whiling his days away pining for his family all this time, and Dumbledore was reminding him that he still had a task to carry on.

Another way of seeing this, though, is that Dumbledore may been foreshadowing what the thing hidden in the school was going to be. The Sorcerer's Stone is an object that is most people's dream, but it does not help them live life as they should. In the same way, the Mirror of Erised shows people their "dreams", but does not show them how to live it.

Excellent questions, Prefect Jovan! Brava!

My favorite question of the bunch:

• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?

This, I think, is the very cornerstone of Rowling's masterpiece. By giving the would-be hero certain allowances, the narrative actually sort of sets the stage for him to try out his strengths (also figure out his weaknesses) in the presence of such constraints such as authority figures (in this case, Prof .McGonagall, his Head of House fer cryin' out loud!) and rules (not to do anything until after Madam Hooch is back from the infirmary).

While an objective bystander such as myself would recognize the seeming unfairness of rewarding Harry with the Seeker-ship (and we're talking about the stern Minerva here, the very epitome of fairness doling out the reward), as a reader, I wouldn't call it inappropriate. First off, how could McG realize the violation when she herself wasn't in the grounds to hear the instructions left by Madam Hooch? She wasn't even aware of Madam Hooch's absence for she simply saw Harry soar on air from a good distance. Methinks the only reason why she said she'd rethink giving the punishment to Harry was to simply encourage the boy to train hard (more like a veiled threat if you ask me). I think she realized too late that Harry actually deserved to be punished for violating a rule than to be rewarded. Teachers do that all the time No, not practice unfairness, but to, oh what's the word? . . .Kumambyo kapag naiipit.

Harry being rewarded for violating a rule is all over the septology (I hope the other Discussion Leaders will bring this up in the succeeding book discussions). And this remembrall incident simply marks the virgin territory Harry is expected to trespass ALL THE TIME (read: Forbidden corridor, Restricted area of the library, entering the girls toilet [okay, to save Hermione, but all students were ordered to go to their common rooms so this is another violation for which he got rewarded as well!], etc.).

I guess the underlying current here is, to be able to rule later on (hero as leader), you must know how to bend certain rules

And oh, just to add that yes, calling this section of the discussion: "Harry's Education" is very fitting. Part of Harry's education is to realize that he will always have to play outside of the set rules. Putting aside what Snape would probably say about this, that it seems the hero is above the rules, Harry is actually constantly toeing the line, constantly aware and always conscious of the rules. It's just that, in the end, he is always made aware that certain things are more important than the rules.

Thank you! I thought it was appropriate due to the topics in these chapters. Everything is new to him. He is discovering not just the world of magic, but himself more importantly.

I'll be posting the third thread soon, so we can wrap up the chapter discussions. [The discussion isn't over yet, though! We can still continue this even after the other books have been introduced for discourse.]

• In Harry's "conversation" with the Sorting Hat, why do you think Harry desperately asked it not put him in Slytherin?

because draco malfoy mentioned that his family was straight slytherin and he really dislikes draco so he didn't want to... and he knew that it was voldemort's house..

• Looking back at the remembrall incident, do you think it is appropriate that Harry is rewarded for something he should be punished for?

yes. because he saved the remembrall of neville instead of letting it to draco. and he really showed signs of being a gryffindor.

• Given what little we know so far of Severus Snape, why do you think Snape treated Harry with much condescension?

because harry's father had treated severus snape with much disgust in the earlier years of the potions master.

• Aside from the troll incident, what do you think prompted Hermione's change of heart?

because hermione once knew that she was once in the good side of harry potter.

• "It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live." What did Albus Dumbledore mean by saying this?

it means don't give up on any obstacles that come in your way.. those are just tests made to test your true abilities and natural skills